Sunday Evening Coffee
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In late 2015, Jack and Tammy Scalfani were invited onto the now-defunct Christian podcast Sunday Evening Coffee hosted by their friends Brian and Krystal Lawing.
The two couples (as well as Jason and Jennifer Zack - studio audience who remained off-camera and would annoyingly chime in with inaudible quips) discussed a variety of topics for an hour, including Jack's childhood, Jack and Tammy's first date, Jack's marriage with his first wife, the Scalfanis' 2014 move from California to Tennessee, and the Scalfani's discovery of Cornerstone Church. Most importantly, the Scalfanis discussed their strained relations with their first son Garrett. During the podcast, Jack admits to an avalanche of disgusting behavior, including having strangled Garrett twice and "[not knowing] when to stop."
The episode was released on 15 October 2015,[1] and has haunted Jack ever since, especially when people initially feeling sympathetic to Jack's crippled self take it all back upon watching it.
Overview
Video link
Original description
Jack & Tammy Scalfani sit down with us this week and tell us their colorful story. Jack is a YouTube cooking star with some videos having over 3 million views. Tammy is an accountant by day and a jack of all trades for their entertainment companies at night. Jack and Tammy share the struggles of trying to raise Jack's first son. He struggled with rage and because of drug use and violence Jack had to kick him out. A storied career in radio to now selling The Best BBQ Sauces around and putting out YouTube videos makes their story fascinating. Get to know Jack and Tammy and then go buy some of their sauce, you won't be disappointed. Also jump over and check Jack out on YouTube. Just search for Cooking with Jack and Jack on the go.[2]
Transcript
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BRIAN: Alright, good evening, and welcome to Sunday Evening Coffee. Sitting across the table from me tonight is my beautiful wife, Krystal. Say hello, babe.
KRYSTAL: Hello, world.
BRIAN: And tonight, we have Jack and Tammy Scalfani. Not Scalfeni, not Scalfini; Scalfani.
JACK: He's awesome. Thank you.
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Sorry, are you- Are you Irish? Is that what that last name is?
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
TAMMY: I'm Irish!
JACK: Yeah, yeah. My- My quosin- cousin Guido will thank you for that. Yeah.
KRYSTAL: You're welcome!
JACK: Yeah, my Irish cousin Guido.
[Krystal points at Jack.]
KRYSTAL: Oh, yeah. There's some... Yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Like, I get that.
BRIAN: And- And as Del Giorno said, we have Jennifer and Jason Zack over at the kiddie table. They can lean down- They can lean down so people on YouTube can see.
[Jason sticks his head out. Everyone laughs.]
BRIAN: Oh, man. So, um, thank you guys for coming back and joining us on Sunday Evening Coffee. Tonight, we're... we're sipping a lot of different stuff. So, some of us have decaf, and that is Peet's. And then, some of us have regular, and that is actually Eight O'Clock Coffee. Krystal bought some Eight O'Clock Coffee this week. Um, we've been drinking it-
KRYSTAL: It was on sale, "buy one get one" at Publix.
BRIAN: That's right. And since we don't have a coffee sponsor yet-
KRYSTAL: Yet!
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
BRIAN: ...Uh, we're-
KRYSTAL: We're open to suggestions!
BRIAN: ...We're... yeah, that's right. So, um-
JACK: It's good. I like it.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
BRIAN: Yeah. It is- It is good coffee. We still... Our- My favorite's still, um, Seattle's Best for our day-to-day coffee, but man, I'm telling you, Peet's is good stuff.
TAMMY: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Okay. We found- We went to Maggiano's.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Oh.
JACK: And we did the- They have Lavazza, which is Italy's number one coffee.
KRYSTAL: It is!
JACK: You can order the K-Cups online.
BRIAN: Oh.
JACK: And we just had 42 of them delivered.
KRYSTAL: Ohhh.
JACK: And it's just as good.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: That sounds fancy.
JACK: So that's like our new favorite.
BRIAN: Lavazza.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: They're put away for just special people.
BRIAN: Yeah.
TAMMY: Not, like, everyday time.
JACK: Yeah. When your parents-
KRYSTAL: So- So if we came to your house, we would know our rank based on the coffee?
BRIAN: The coffee that you get!
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Yeah. I'll rip the label off Lavazza and put it on Seattle's Best!
BRIAN: Ohhh. I think that was a burn.
JACK: No.
TAMMY: No!
JACK: I'm... Just look at [Krystal]. She's- No, you're- you're- you're our A-list. It's okay.
BRIAN: So, so Jack and Tammy- So, crazy, crazy thing. So I'll give some credit not only to Jack, but to a couple people, because of our podcast and this. Um, I reached out to Jack. We met from church, Jack and Tammy go to church with us. And, um, Jack, and... They'll get into their story, but Jack is a YouTube sensation. So I mean, he is on YouTube. He has hundreds of thousands of followers. He's got-
KRYSTAL: He's kind of a big deal.
BRIAN: He is a big deal.
KRYSTAL: Kind of a big deal.
JACK: Is he?
KRYSTAL: So I hear, yeah! Yeah!
BRIAN: We're gonna get you a shirt that says "I'm kind of a big deal."
JACK: Oh, I'm just, I'm just big.
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Yeah. [Tammy is] deal. I'm big. [Tammy is] deal. [laughs]
BRIAN: Um, so like me, Jack is a foodie, and I mean, I love food. If you know me, if you've been watching this at all, you know I love food. I really love it. Jack loves food, too. And so I've recorded a couple episodes with Jack on his, uh, Jack on the Go show, and Cooking with Jack, and-
KRYSTAL: And not all-
JACK: Big hits!
KRYSTAL: ...Not all those comments were nice. It was a little- it was a little hard to- to hear some-
BRIAN: Not for me!
KRYSTAL: ...Some feedback. I know. I was like, "I can't look at all this stuff."
BRIAN: I love it!
KRYSTAL: 'Cause I wanna go beat people up.
TAMMY: I know. I know.
BRIAN: I love it!
TAMMY: Yeah, mm-hmm.
JACK: Oh, you never read YouTube. Never! I never look.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: No?
JACK: I never look.
KRYSTAL: Do you really not?
JACK: I don't. I stopped. I stopped this year.
KRYSTAL: Yeah, I would have to do that.
JACK: I couldn't handle it anymore.
BRIAN: No, I like it! [laughs]
KRYSTAL: I couldn't do it. I couldn't handle it anymore.
JACK: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: It just fires me up. I wanna go, like, hurt people.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Which is not godly, I know. I get it.
JACK: Yeah. Yeah, but it is Italian, though. You have Italian in you.
KRYSTAL: No.
[Brian laughs.]
JACK: Oh.
KRYSTAL: Mm-mm. [laughs]
JACK: So...
BRIAN: Um, so tell everybody where all they can find you at?
JACK: Um, they can just search YouTube, uh, Cooking with Jack Show, or they can do Jack on the Go.
BRIAN: Yup.
JACK: And, uh, you've had some great episodes, by the way.
BRIAN: Thanks.
JACK: You were one of my highest views.
[Brian laughs.]
JACK: So yeah, it went really well. Um, and yeah, and it's just a, kind of a, real bunch of guys getting together, uh, whether we're cooking in the kitchen or-
TAMMY: And girls!
JACK: Or girls, yeah.
TAMMY: Yes.
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Or we're eating burgers or whatever, or steak, or... Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
KRYSTAL: That's awesome.
BRIAN: It is fun. And the thing that I love about it - with so many of the cooking shows, um, people try so hard to, to be just, you know, this amazing chef, and Jack's just Jack. He's like: "Yeah. Oh, I don't know. We'll see what this does." I mean, and I love that. It's just real.
KRYSTAL: [laughs] Which is the real world. That's-
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah. That's real life.
BRIAN: And that's- I think that's what's so appealing, so...
KRYSTAL: Do you have any products that people can order?
BRIAN: Yes, that's what I was getting ready to say.
KRYSTAL: Or don't you have... Yeah.
JACK: Umm, yeah. In fact, the reason why we made this - the cooking show - was to promote the products.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And, uhh, we wanted to... We have a line of sauces. It's called The Best Barbecue Sauce You'll Ever Taste. And then there's hot, and teriyaki, and gourmet seasoning. And we developed the show to say: "Hey, here's how you peel a potato, and by the way, buy my sauce."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And the, the show took off. And we didn't do the show to take off - we did the show to sell sauce.
KRYSTAL: So the secondary-
JACK: It became a beast.
KRYSTAL: Became a b- Yeah.
JACK: Yeah. And, uhh, so, you know, you take-
KRYSTAL: And the teriyaki, I love!
JACK: Oh, do you?
BRIAN: Our youngest daughter, she always... Like, anytime we do vegetables, she's like: "Oh, are we gonna put Jack's teriyaki sauce on there?"
[Brian, Jack and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: Yeah! Yeah!
JACK: Yeah, that's our leader!
BRIAN: So we use that a lot.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: That's our leader right there!
BRIAN: It's all good stuff, though.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
BRIAN: It's all good stuff, though. I mean, it's- I'm impressed with all of it.
KRYSTAL: That's, that's-
BRIAN: And I- I don't say that lightly, and I don't say that to stroke your ego. I mean, if I didn't like it, I would tell you. But I do like it, and we-
JACK: Oh, thank you.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: I appreciate it.
BRIAN: Um, so again, to give some credit to- to Jack. So when I- When I started this, uhh- When I decided that we were gonna start this podcast, umm, and we all started talking about it, Jack immediately said he would help out in any way that he could. Um, he sat down and walked me through some video editing stuff, and- and gave me some tips on YouTube. And so, just a godsend. I mean, just right in the right moment. I mean, the week before we started, I mean, I sat down, and Jack was just there to help. And he said: "You know, uhh, God has blessed me, and- and I told God as soon as, uhh, I started this that I would- I would give back." And- And that's what he did. And so he helped us kinda on the front end get this stuff going. So... thank you, appreciate that.
JACK: Um, you're welcome. And anybody listening to your show, same thing extends to them.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: If they need help with anything, anything I know-
KRYSTAL: That's wonderful.
JACK: ...It's for them to know.
BRIAN: That's awesome. That's awesome. So go check Jack out. Watch his videos. You'll like him, I promise.
KRYSTAL: Order his stuff. It's great.
BRIAN: Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're on the West Coast, go to Walmart and pick it up, right?
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Yes.
KRYSTAL: Again, kind of a big deal.
BRIAN: Kind of a big deal! Yeah. [laughs]
TAMMY: Yeah...
JACK: And I just wanna throw in there that my wife is so much a part of it, and without her, it won't- none of this would exist. Not the cooking show, umm, nobody- nobody saw her behind the scenes, uh, accounting during the day and waitressing at night.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: Doing two shows to launch both companies.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
JACK: She deserves everything that she gets in life.
BRIAN: Are you just saying that 'cause this is a marriage podcast?
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: No... Oh! Oh, oh, is this a mar- Let me bring in my other three wives! I didn't- I didn't know it was a marriage podcast!
BRIAN: Sister wives!
JACK: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No-
KRYSTAL: Surprise!
JACK: Yeah, exactly. Um, no, but I- I- I never, ever want it to just be me, uh, because I couldn't do it without her, and I wouldn't be able to.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: Ever.
KRYSTAL: That's great.
JACK: So people never see behind the scenes-
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: ...But there's always, there's always somebody supporting you behind the scenes that deserves just as much, if not more, credit.
BRIAN: For sure. For sure. Well, so we'll dive in and- and- and kinda listen to- to Jack and Tammy's story. And, um, they have an interesting story, I mean, from, uhhh, moving here from California to, uh, and Jack already having a- a child when they got married and, um, to Jack, you know, not having a conventional nine-to-five job. So I mean, all those-
KRYSTAL: I know, which would totally freak me out. Like I'm... yeah.
BRIAN: ...All those things just add up to an interesting story. So- And Jack's a worshiper. Jack and Tammy both. Being on stage at church, I've told Jack this - I love to watch them worship 'cause Jack worships without abandon. It's just... gotta love it. So, you guys, jump in! Tell us- Tell us who you are and- and just let everybody-
KRYSTAL: Okay, I'm gonna ask the first question. How long have you been married?
TAMMY: Since I was... Well, we've been together since I was 19.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And we got married in '98. So...
JACK: Mm-hmm, yep.
KRYSTAL: So a few years.
TAMMY: What, that's 16 years almost...
JACK: Just a few.
KRYSTAL: Okay. Okay, now [Jack] jump in.
TAMMY: Okay.
JACK: Should we... All right, I'll start. Let me go back and then bring up to the- to the child-
TAMMY: And just, fast, 'cause you'll be here all day.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: I'll give you fast, okay. So, alright.
KRYSTAL: We'll edit it out!
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Alright, real quick. So here's the Reader's Digest version, bringing you up to the- the first child. Um, basically, when I was younger in school, I was a loner. Did- Wasn't outgoing at all. Uh, all the way up to 11th grade, I was president of the chess club, president of the computer cl- I was a total nerd when it wasn't cool to be a nerd.
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Awesome! I love that!
JACK: There was one computer in the whole high school, and I would be there 5:30 in the morning to get it. So, and I ate my lunch alone in the library. Alright, now that we got that whole thing...
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: In 12th grade, I got tired of being a nobody and having no friends, and I just said: "That's it. Game over. I'm gonna... I- If I see a beautiful woman, I'm gonna walk up and tell her - You're absolutely beautiful and that's all I wanted to say, have a nice day - and walk away." And I wanted to be outgoing, and I wanted to have friends, and so I- I flipped the switch at- when I graduated high school. And then I went into the entertainment field, so I started DJing nightclubs.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: With a fake ID.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: And I didn't drink alcohol, but, uhh, my mom ironically helped me get it.
KRYSTAL: [gasp] That's funny.
JACK: Yeah. Back then, you get a... You know. I don't know how we did it. We- She helped sign for something or help me-
KRYSTAL: Is that an Italian thing maybe?
JACK: It was... Oh, yeah.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: Yeah. We- We know people.
KRYSTAL: You don't have to talk about it. That's all- It's okay.
JACK: So- So my heathen, sinful life was in the nightclubs, seven years of it.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
JACK: And, uh, that's when... And- And- Even though I wasn't a Christian at the time, I- I've always believed in God. I just never knew what to do with it.
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: It's one of those things.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: Yeah, God exists. I love Him. He's awesome. And I- I talked to Him, but I knew nothing else. So I'm going along, and I'm- I'm in the nightclubs for seven years, and then I go to radio, and I do- I get to do country radio for seven years. And it was funny 'cause, uh, I- I pray- I prayed to God, ironically, not as a Christian. And I'm like: "Lord, Lord, please, I don't want Southern gospel. I don't want country music..."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: "And I- and I don't want country music. Any other radio station!" And my college professor was like: "Okay, you're horrible in class, but you're an A+ on the microphone. So why don't you come with me? I- I'm a program director at a country station."
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: I'm like: "Thank you, God. Thank you." So I- I learned to love the country, the people that like country music, everything about them. It is the backbone of this country. It is the... And I'm not- I'm not trying to kiss up to anybody. I have to tell you-
KRYSTAL: And you were living, where, in California-
JACK: I was living in asphalt jungle, Orange County, California.
KRYSTAL: Okay.
JACK: So I-
KRYSTAL: To put it in perspective for everybody.
JACK: ...I've never touched a horse, or a cow, or anything.
KRYSTAL: Oh, right.
JACK: But the people were so dedicated. They were my second family. So now I'm- Umm, in my nightclub years, I had gotten married with my first wife, and we had a child out of, uh... out of wedlock, but then we got married. And she was abusive, and it's kind of weird to say that my wife beat me.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And threw ashtrays at me, and plates, and pushed me through a shower door, and-
BRIAN: Wow.
KRYSTAL: Ooh.
JACK: Yeah. And it's- And... it's- It's something that guys don't wanna admit, that you- But I never could hit her, or a woman ever. And it just wasn't something- It wasn't in my repertoire. And I- So I left her as soon as we had a child.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: I'm like: "I cannot allow her to raise this child." So, um, I got custody of my son, Garrett Scalfani. And he and I were, uh... Uh, it was tough being a single parent. I was- I luckily had my mom to help watch him, so that I could DJ at night, and, uh... And then I'd come home and do the two o'clock feeding.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Uh, I made my own baby food, and-
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow!
JACK: ...That was amazing. Uh, it was-
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Um, okay, well you just one-upped me on the mom scale, because I did not. I bought those little jars.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: I'm gonna- I'm gonna- I'm gonna two-up you, because I used cloth diapers his whole life.
KRYSTAL: Awww.
BRIAN: Oh!
TAMMY: Blergh!
JACK: And I cleaned them by hand.
[Krystal laughs.]
TAMMY: Alright-
JACK: And back then, I saved at least $80 a month on diapers.
KRYSTAL: So was that your driving force, was to save money?
JACK: It was- Yeah-
KRYSTAL: Or was it just because that's what you wanted to do?
JACK: No, it was money.
KRYSTAL: The money.
JACK: It was money. I would've loved Velcro.
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: Trsch! And throw it out.
[Tammy laughs.]
KRYSTAL: I think it was tape back then.
JACK: Yeah. Uh, no- I- yeah, exactly.
KRYSTAL: It wasn't- It wasn't Velcro yet. [laughs]
JACK: And- And it wasn't like you could-
JASON: [?]
JACK: ...Exactly. You couldn't undo it and check-
KRYSTAL: Yeah, no!
JACK: ...'Cause then you had to get a new one.
KRYSTAL: You had to use the finger. [laughs]
JACK: Yeah, exactly. Gross... Yeah.
TAMMY: Nooo...
JACK: So-
TAMMY: Nooo...
JACK: ...So then I go right into radio, and I am, uh, the DJ at the- at the bowling alley. Uh, KIK FM.
BRIAN: Give us a quick station identification. Let's hear it.
JACK: Oh.
TAMMY: It's no longer around.
BRIAN: Well, I mean just-
TAMMY: Okay.
BRIAN: ...The voice.
JACK: Oh. "You're listening to the hot new country, 94.3 KIK FM. We've got 20 in a row. That's right, we've never done it before, but now that I'm giving you my voice, I get to do whatever I want."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: "Commercial-free, coming up next!"
KRYSTAL: Oh, that's great. That's great.
JACK: So- So uhm, so- So I- I meet [Tammy]. She, um... Shawn Parr ironically is here in Nashville.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: He's on, uh, Nash- Not Nash Icon, but Nash.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And he, uh, he was the morning man, so I was overnights. I would get his coffee, and cereal, and everything. And, yeah, and he never thanked me.
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: So if you're listening, Sean, you never thanked me. We have some issues to go over.
TAMMY: The Jerry Springer episode!
[Tammy and Krystal laughs.]
JACK: Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Um, no, but Shawn [?]-
KRYSTAL: That's every day.
JACK: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, uh, so Shawn's little brother... [Tammy] was Sean's little brother, Jay's, girlfriend at the time.
KRYSTAL: Ohh!
TAMMY: This was, yes. This was.
JACK: And Jay and I were friends. Um, but I- I don't know why, I was always monogamous even in liking a girl, and I never- I never played dirty. I wasn't gonna try and steal her, so I waited 'til she was available. And when I found out she was available - which I must have not been paying attention, because she had been available for, like, two months...
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: So it's like: "Oh, yeah, I broke up with Jay months ago." I'm like: "Really?" And I'm like- I'm like: "Do you wanna go out?" And, she's like: "Well, no, my work..."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
BRIAN: "I gotta wash my hair!"
KRYSTAL: And he's like: "I'm making my own baby food!"
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: I'm like- I'm like: "What is up with that?"
TAMMY: Okay, so little, little caveat here. He always wore a baseball cap. I'm 19. He was 25 or something like that.
JACK: Something like that.
TAMMY: Like, something like that.
JACK: Something like that.
TAMMY: So I never knew, right? Skinny little thing, right?
JACK: Who, me?
TAMMY: Me.
JACK: Oh.
TAMMY: Well, you were too!
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
TAMMY: You were too!
JACK: Ironically-
TAMMY: Yeah!
KRYSTAL: "Who, me?!"
JACK: Ironically, I was a 34” waist.
TAMMY: Yeah.
[Krystal gasps.]
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: And- But I was smoking at the time.
KRYSTAL: Oh...
JACK: Cigarettes. So, this is from not smoking.
[Jack gestures at his fat self. Krystal laughs.]
JACK: This, I went... poof! But, uh-
[Brian laughs.]
JACK: So I- so I literally asked her out. She said no. That really upset me, 'cause I was the DJ.
JACK: I was the guy-
KRYSTAL: "I've got the voice!"
TAMMY: "Yeah, whatever!"
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: You went- You went out- You went out with Dumpy, but you won't go out with the DJ?
BRIAN: Haha, Dumpy.
JACK: So- So we, uh-
TAMMY: And he was the bar!
[Jack dismissively throws his hand.]
JACK: ...By the way, Jay was a nice guy.
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: But three times! I asked her out three times.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: And I basically got the message to her that this ain't ever gonna stop. This is not- So you either need to go out with me and say: "It's not gonna work out" or- But we ARE going out.
KRYSTAL: Or file a restraining order...
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: Yeah. Exactly.
BRIAN: One of those two.
JACK: She... I'm a sucker for a baby face, and she has the most adorable- still does-
BRIAN: Mm-hmm.
JACK: The most adorable baby face. Ummm-
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: And, and I couldn't stop thinking about her. And every week, I go to the bowling alley: "Will you please go out with me? I don't care about your job. I don't care aboutanyofthatstuff." So [Tammy], so do you wanna talk about our first date, or do you want me to?
TAMMY: Well, on the third time I said: "Fine! Just let me know where you're gonna be at."
JACK: [laughs] "Fine!"
TAMMY: "Let me know how to dress-"
BRIAN: "Fine!"
TAMMY: "...Where, what time, everything", because I knew he wasn't gonna go away. Uhm-
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: Like some bad luggage...
TAMMY: So I'm just like: "Fine, whatever." I was in my stage of being independent. I was 19, trying to prove that I didn't need that guy around, was going to school, working a job, bowling in three leagues. Just... trying to find me.
JACK: Yeah, bowling in three leagues, but no time to go out with me.
[Jack makes a mocking face. Brian and Krystal laugh.]
TAMMY: Well, I was busy! Keep' myself busy, everything. Yeah, so- So anyway, so I finally said yes, and he said that he was gonna take me to Elizabeth Curtain Call, which was a dinner and show - like a small, like, Broadway theater show. Um, so-
JACK: Remember what the show was?
TAMMY: I always forget it.
JACK: Come ooon!
TAMMY: I- They do the matchmaker song.
JACK: Any- no, that was... No.
TAMMY: Oh. See, I don't even know. [laughs]
JACK: That was later. We, we saw Any- we saw Anything Goes.
TAMMY: See, I don't know...
JACK: And it's a- Oh, sorry, everybody's lost.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
TAMMY: Yeah, see, I didn't remember!
JACK: You would know. You would know the song if you heard it.
KRYSTAL: Okay.
JACK: Anything Goes. But anyway...
TAMMY: Anyway, so I went out and got brand-new clothes. I don't even know why.
KRYSTAL: Aw.
TAMMY: But I did. I got a brand-new dress, boots, and I curled my hair with... Do you remember the bed curlers that you'd roll up and clip in?
KRYSTAL: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
TAMMY: 'Cause I mean, it was like, okay, if I'm gonna go out, I might as well.
JACK: You were 19...
TAMMY: Yeah. So-
KRYSTAL: And then you go: "Oh, my hair's a lot shorter and wider than I thought it would be!"
[Everyone laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Trying to pull it down! Yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah. Yeah. So- So I got ready, and then he came, picked me up and... Go ahead.
[Tammy gestures at Jack.]
JACK: So... I was massively sick that day. 103 degrees. I took my temperature before I had the date.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: I was dying inside. And I'm like, "There is- I would have to be dead to not make this date." I don't remember the play. I remember the name, but I don't remember the play. I don't remember seeing it.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: I don't- I remember the chicken was nasty dry.
TAMMY: Dry.
JACK: It was the worst chicken.
TAMMY: And you made me taste the sour cream to make sure it wasn't horseradish. Yes?
JACK: That's right...
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: I don't wanna burn my mouth, you know? So, um, so yeah-
BRIAN: He has a sensitive palate~
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Exactly!
TAMMY: Even sick. Yeah.
JACK: I needed it for our videos together! I'm like: "There's a guy named Brian I'm gonna meet down the road. We need our palates." So, um, so yeah- So we went out, and I- I've always asked a girl for, to do a kiss. I thought it would be more appropriate to say: "Do you mind if I kiss you?" And I don't know why, I didn't wanna- Because I hated uncomfortableness.
BRIAN: Brian did not do that, just in case anybody's wondering. [laughs] He did not ask.
JACK: Well, all right. We gotta pause. Hold on.
BRIAN: She said I gave her the surprise attack~
KRYSTAL: She- I said: "Oh, that was a surprise attack." [laughs] Okay, go ahead.
JACK: No, wait a minute! Wait, no! I need more. I- Now you got me all-
KRYSTAL: Nope. That's all you get.
JACK: You can't- You can't just have one cookie! No! No! I need to know, like, did you turn and- Or did he just lean forward?
KRYSTAL: Like, I think I looked up, and he was, like, in my face.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah. Like, in my mouth.
[A graphic saying "EWW!" flashes on screen. Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Oh, in your mouth?! Okay! Alright, and I've now had too many cookies!
KRYSTAL: I'm like: "That's a surprise attack."
JACK: Go on, give me some! Nice!
[Brian and Jack high-five.]
BRIAN: So- So there was a- There was a line right there.
[Brian draws a line with his finger and gestures jumping over it. Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Whoom!
KRYSTAL: Kissing me. You were kissing me, so [?]-
BRIAN: Yeah, so that too.
JACK: So she- She said- She said yes. She said yes, I could kiss her.
KRYSTAL: Did you kiss her?
JACK: No. I told her: "I ha- I, I have to be honest with you. I have 103-degree temperature..."
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: "...And I- I don't wanna leave without a kiss, so I'm gonna kiss you on the cheek if you don't mind. Don't take offense, I would kiss you on the mouth if I could, but I don't wanna get you sick."
BRIAN: Aww.
KRYSTAL: That's thoughtful.
JACK: And so I-
KRYSTAL: That's sweet.
JACK: ...So- So I le- So yeah, so I kissed- I gave her a peck on the- on the cheek, and then she goes: "Now I have to be honest with you. I'm probably going to get written up at work 'cause I wasn't supposed to call- call in sick today. I called in sick. He- My boss told me: 'Don't you dare call in sick tonight.'" And she called in sick. I'm like: "Yes! She really wanted to go."
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Aww.
TAMMY: I was a waitress! Yeah.
BRIAN: I mean, she had her hair curled. Could you not tell?
[Brian and Krystal laughs.]
JACK: Yeah. I didn't- I didn't know if she slept in them.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: So, um, so now moving forward with- with the little one. We... that was an adventure.
BRIAN: [To Tammy] So did you know that he had a child before he went out?
TAMMY: Okay, not at first! Well, when I- when I met him, I was going to school, 'cause I wanted to be an accountant. So I was- I was- That's why- Actually why I left Jay, because Jay didn't have a goal. I was at the point where I wanted to figure out where I was in my life. So I knew what I wanted to be, and I wanted a guy that knew what he wanted to be.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And Jay was a mechanic at a bowling alley, and I told him: "Look, you gotta, you gotta figure it out. You can't just be a mechanic. I'm sorry, it's not gonna work."
JACK: Okay, this is the Jay show...
TAMMY: Shut up!
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Sorry! Sorry! You- That's it-
TAMMY: So- So anyway, so-
JACK: You've reached your maximum two Jays!
TAMMY: ...So after two weeks, he decided he- That's what he wanted to do, and I said: "Okay, well, we're done." I had a promise ring on my finger and everything. Like: "We're done. Sorry. Here you go." And, so then, then Jack found out two months later we broke up. And... so it was really important to me to find out a guy that had a goal, had a dream, wanted to mean- I knew I didn't want to be a CPA-
JACK: Have a kid! [laughs]
TAMMY: I wasn't gonna be an accountant 'cause I wanted to have a family. I wanna be a mom, a wife, all that. So when I met Jack, um... I didn't know how much he made, because it wasn't a union station. Um, and no, I did not know he had a kid. [laughs]
JACK: When did-
KRYSTAL: So when you went on the date, you didn't know it that time?
TAMMY: No- Which, okay, so I said yes, and Jack used to wear baseball caps, so he looks a lot younger, um, 'cause he was bald when I met him. His first wife took all the hair. Uhm, so...
[Brian laughs.]
JACK: Alright... alright...
TAMMY: So, uhm, so-
JACK: Remember when you saw me?
TAMMY: Uh, yeah. It was like a week before our date, after I already said yes.
JACK: Yeah~
TAMMY: He was doing a... uhm... a-
JACK: [?]
TAMMY: Oh yeah, what'd they call those?
JACK: It was a grand opening for a radio station at a supermarket.
TAMMY: Yeah, he was doing a... a thing. Anyway, so he was there, and I went there and had my sunglasses on. I said: "He's got like five minutes to realize I'm here." Like, yeah, five minutes.
[Jack makes a dumb pretend-angry expression and raises his hand.]
KRYSTAL: It's a test.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: 'Cause, yeah, like, I'm not gonna be hanging around here, like, thinking I know people, right?
JACK: Let me- Let me set the stage. There's about 60 people in the parking lot.
TAMMY: Anyway-
JACK: And I'm on the microphone and I'm conducting the whole opening, and we're doing contests, and I'm doing call-ins, and she wants me to know she's there.
KRYSTAL: Tick-tock, buddy.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Tick-tock.
TAMMY: So I get there, and he's, like, doing a commercial. He's talking on the air. And I look and he's got no hat. And I'm like: "Oh. Oof."
[Brian and Krystal erupt in laughter.]
KRYSTAL: You went: "I just expected there would be a lot of hair under that hat!"
TAMMY: I'm like: "Ugh..." And one of our friends, Jeanie, which was- um, knew Jack and everything, and so the kind- We met kind of that way too, but uhm, so like, I'm not even kidding you, like, four minutes and 45 seconds, right around there, he was on the radio and he, like, yells: "Baby!" And I'm like: "Oh. Oh my Lord..."
BRIAN: "He's not talking to me!"
TAMMY: Like, please don't be me. Please don't be me. And he walks right over to me and I'm like: "Oh. Oh my Lord..."
JACK: And everybody just turns and looks at her.
TAMMY: Yeah, no.
JACK: Like: "Yeah!~"
TAMMY: Yeah, so that was the scope into my life now.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: You were prepared from early on.
TAMMY: Yes~ Yes. So, um, so anyway. So then we went on our date, and that was it.
JACK: Yeah. And then, uh, g- Um, so let's talk about, uh, I think I wanna share with everybody... how hard it is to bring somebody in when the child's already there.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Uh, she came in when he was three.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: So he really only knows her as "Mom". He's had a relationship with his real mom, and that was more of a weekend-type thing. Um, and I had custody. So- So she helped raise - and she's 19, no child, and... I mean, straight out, it- It was hard.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Because as he got older, she's not Mom, and she's trying to control, and discipline, and love and everything. And it- It was... I applaud her.
TAMMY: But I'm doing the baseball, the karate, the- the instrument lessons that never worked out...
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: ...You know, all that. So...
JACK: Right. So-
TAMMY: Right.
JACK: ...Um, uh, how open can we get on this show?
BRIAN: As open as you wanna be.
[Tammy laughs.]
BRIAN: The more- The more open, the better.
TAMMY: Yeah, you better make sure it's okay.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: No, I'm- No!-
KRYSTAL: You might wanna write it on a piece of paper and slide it over!
TAMMY: No!
JACK: No, my- Wait- No!- No- My- My- My son, uh, is very open about it already on social media, so-
TAMMY: Yes.
[Sudden jumpcut.]
JACK: ...She was amazing with him, and everything I wanted. And then we got married, and we had a country wedding.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: So that everybody could show up in jeans, 'cause I hate weddings. I've DJed weddings too.
[Brian laughs.]
JACK: And I wanted everybody to be comfortable at our wedding.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And it was the most- To this day, they're talking about how great that wedding was.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "You could come in your jeans! It's awesome."
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: Um, so, um- So we get married, and then she- sh- That's when I gave myself to Christ, right before we got married. And I was all for it, sure. I- I'm totally open to God. I wanna learn more, and if that means I- how I spend the rest of my life with you, I'll be obedient. Be obedient to God.
TAMMY: We were already going to church-
JACK: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: ...That's how I sucked him in through-
JACK: Sucked me in. [laughs]
TAMMY: ...With Garrett- With Garrett. I used the child to get him to go to church 'cause, um, he wasn't raised in it and I was. I was raised Baptist, private school all the way-
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: ...Up 'til junior high, and then public after that. Um, so we were already going to church. I'm like: "What's the deal? Like, just step forward."
JACK: Alright, so-
TAMMY: "Like, really?" -What?
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: ...So let's- Let's jump to the part- This is really- This is the key part here. We did a great job parenting. We didn't do the best job, and- But we did the best we could at the time.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: The other side, who, uh, she's a totally sweet person, but... was not strict at all. He had carte blanche.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: So every weekend was carte blanche, and every Monday or Tuesday, we were hammering our kid to get him back into shape.
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: By the time Wednesday, Thursday rolls around, he's finally our child again. Friday comes, she picks him up. And he'll- He'll admit to you, it destroyed him.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: It was-
KRYSTAL: Having two such different environments that you're trying to-
TAMMY: Right.
JACK: Yeah!
KRYSTAL: ...Reconcile when you're a kid.
JACK: It was like- It was- It was rough. And he starts- 'Cause he couldn't handle it. I was "Mr. Strict Parent".
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And she... just didn't do anything, and it was- It w- It just messed him up.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And so he starts having rage issues. So, uh- So we had to deal with that, and as he got into his teen years, um, he- he had a great home life. He had everything his heart desired. He never went without.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Um, he, uh- He started to hang out with the wrong crowd at high- in California high schools. Uh, and I want to be specific about that, because California high schools are rough.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: They're full of kids that don't wanna be there. Full of gangs. And-
TAMMY: Teachers that don't wanna be there.
JACK: ...They're- They're- They're little jails.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: I call them little jails. And, uh- So he hung out with the- He chose to hang out with his friends, and become who they were. A- Against our will, against our wishes. Um, and we- I remember the first bad thing he did, uh... Oh! Um, I- I wanted- I wanted him to, at age 13, to start his own company. We talked about it. We want to encourage him to start early. We don't want him just wasting money and blowing money.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: We want him to earn money and- and get excited about something that's his.
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: And so by the time he's 18, he would have something that's already substantial, right? So- So we got him into building computers. And, uh, I took him to a shop in Huntington Beach. Every three times a week, he was interning there. They were teaching him how to put it all together... and that was where he learned how to smoke pot. And...
[Jack freezes up. Krystal and Tammy smirk at each other.]
JACK: ...And I still haven't given that one up. That I was the reason he started smoking pot. I encouraged him, I found the place, and I got my son hooked on drugs.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And, uh... It, uhh... umm... It's tough, and I- I- I should... I should definitely deal with that. But, uh, he... It- It escalated, and he started, uh- started cursing at Tammy and me, and having rage issues. And there were two times, once, he put his hand on me, and- and it wasn't like he pushed me, but it was in an aggressive way.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And I took him down to the ground. I threw him down to the ground. And then the second time, he put his hands on... Tammy. Pushed her up against the door, and... I took him to the ground and I was gonna kill him. I was choking him out. And... I hadn't fought since school. The only time you stop fighting in school is the principal's coming. But this was the moment... I was choking him and screaming in his ears: "You don't ever touch a woman. You don't EVER touch a woman!" at the top of my voice. I was choking him so hard, his nose started to bleed.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
JACK: And... I didn't know when to stop. And his friend was in the room and stepped over us. I don't remember him leaving. But, uh- The interesting thing was: Garrett never fought me, never pushed back, never tried to hurt me or hit me. He completely submitted. Which... O- Out of respect? Love? I don't know. Fear? I don't know. I never understood that. So, we- We had some rough times, and that's when we had to let him go at age 16. And say: "You're no longer ever allowed in this house. We will love you. We will, you know, give you advice. We will do whatever you need, but we'll never give you money. And we were nev-" 'cau- 'cause he was addicted to marijuana.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: We didn't realize how bad it was yet. But, uh: "A- And we won't give you a roof over your head, but we love you. We will always love you no matter what, and you need to go." And our plan was him coming back in tears, asking to come back in the house, hoping that he would come back for a second chance so we could forgive him.
KRYSTAL: Repentant, right?
TAMMY: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Mom and dad stepped in the way. And they took him in, and they enabled him to build an even worse lifestyle.
KRYSTAL: Tsssk. That's tough...
JACK: Give him carte blanche, and, uh, deal drugs out of her- their house. And when I-
BRIAN: Your mom and dad?
JACK: My mom and dad.
BRIAN: Your mom and dad.
JACK: Yeah, my mom and dad. And-
KRYSTAL: Was their perspective, they're just trying to offer help and-
JACK: They just didn't want him on the streets.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: And I'm like: "Look, this child's never been on the streets. He doesn't know streets. He'll be back. He'll- He'll maybe sleep in the yard, down the street in the park, but he... You know."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: They ruined everything. In my mind, they ruined everything. They- They enabled him. So, uh... We had, uh-
TAMMY: We had Jack Junior.
JACK: We had, uh- We had Jack Junior during his rage years. Uh, Jack [Junior] was how old when we kicked [Garrett] out?
TAMMY: Well, they're about ten years apart-
JACK: Ten years apart?
TAMMY: ...So he was about six.
JACK: He- Yeah, he was about six years old. And one of the interesting things was our son, uh, Garrett, he would never rage when Jack Junior was around.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: He would never let him see him. He would never rage. He- He probably would've broken everything in the house, but Jack Junior was asleep when we kicked him out, and he didn't wanna scare his brother. And to this day, if you mention his name, right, Garrett will cry over us mentioning Jack Junior 'cause he loves him so much.
KRYSTAL: Mmh.
JACK: So my- Both my boys have big hearts. They're little boys inside. But my son has been affected by an evil world, and he has, um- He still has never been back in the house. Um-
KRYSTAL: What's your relationship like today with him? Do you have a relationship or-
JACK: Uh, yeah, he-
TAMMY: We have an amazing relationship with him. Ironically, he tells us everything. Everything that even we don't wanna know, to being jumped, to being stabbed, to what he's doing and where he's going, 'cause that's what I've always asked. I said: "If you're going somewhere, you're flying somewhere, you gotta let me know as a mom where you're gonna be." So if I know, world comes to an end, where my child is.
KRYSTAL: How old is he?
TAMMY: Um, he's 25 now.
KRYSTAL: 25, right.
TAMMY: So, um- So he's done that. He's very open, more with Jack, because I don't know if I can handle a lot of this stuff.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: Yeah. "No! I don't need to know!"
TAMMY: Because, I mean, he tells me through- You know, he tells me through Garrett, but, but it's just... it's one of those things. You're like: "He's our- We're praying, he's our prodigal son." He's coming here for Christmas.
KRYSTAL: Oh, that's good!
TAMMY: Um, and he's not staying in our house. Because he's still doing what he does.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And with Ga- With Jack [Junior] being 15... I mean, Jack- Jack Junior knows everything about Garrett. He knows his whole lifestyle, he knows everything, and it breaks Jack [Junior]'s heart because he knows he lost his brother because of drugs.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: So, ummm- So Garrett will be staying in our timeshare that we have here, and then coming to stay with us during the day or whatever.
JACK: Jack Junior, umm... Jack Junior's awesome. He is- When Jack Junior was born, we- we told God we would do things differently. And we lifted him up and gave him to God. He goes- He- "We will take care of him, but he is yours."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "And he is yours to do whatever you will. If it means another country, and I don't get to see him ever again, if he has to go do your work somewhere else - use him any way, shape, or form, and we will support him no matter where you break his heart. But we will never tell him that he should be a pastor. We'll never mention the words. We'll never push him in any direction." And at age 13, Jack [Junior]'s in the backseat and he goes- he says: "Mom, Dad", he goes: "I know I'm never gonna be in the NFL, and I'm probably never gonna be a rock star." He goes: "But I'm really, really yearning to be, like, a youth pastor."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy smile.]
JACK: And that was the first time the word "pastor" was ever in a conversation with our ti- child and us. 'Cause we never wanted- We wanted to make sure it came from his heart-
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: ...And that we never pushed in any direction. And, uh- And he just recently was offered marijuana for the first time this year.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And I- I wish he'd came to me, but what did he do? He called his brother.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
JACK: And his brother- His brother told him: "This is what you do. You get away. You never go near it. And the best way to avoid the peer pressure is say: 'I have a breathing problem.' Lie. This way, they won't make fun of you. They won't ever try to ask you again. Say: 'I have emphysema, or asthma, or whatever. I can go into an attack. I can't do that.'" He says: "That's- That will work, and that will save you from being embarrassed."
KRYSTAL: So the son with the drug addiction is helping the other son-
TAMMY: Yes.
KRYSTAL: ...Steer clear of that lifestyle.
JACK: Absolutely!
TAMMY: Yes. Yeah.
KRYSTAL: That's interesting.
JACK: He also advised him, he says: "Do what dad says. Do what dad- Had- Had I had it to do over again..."
[Jack's voice tears up.]
JACK: "...I would've done what Dad said." And, you know, I've- I've advised people to: "Sometimes you gotta let your child go..."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "...To save the rest of the family."
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: Bible says, you know: "You cut your- Cut your arm off, rip your eye out, whatever you gotta do to save the rest of the body." But it... ugh...
TAMMY: It actually brought us closer to Garrett, because Garrett felt like, not being in our house, he was able to be himself. And he's trying. He started going to church this year. To a church that is accepting of what he's doing. 'Cause in California you can get a green card and it's legal to carry. Um, just-
JACK: A medical card?
TAMMY: ...Yeah, medical.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: Well, they have their green cards. But yeah. Green- Everybody has a green card for a different reason in California.
[Everyone laughs.]
KRYSTAL: I know, I'm thinking: "Wait a minute, I'm confused! I don't know anything about these green cards!"
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: So, I mean, you-
JACK: These are different green cards. You roll them up and smoke them!
TAMMY: Yeah, you go-
KRYSTAL: So wait a minute. You can get a green card and carry pot in California?
TAMMY: You can- You can walk into a doctor. He has one that he pays, I think, at- When they first came out years ago, they were $300 for three years.
JACK: You can-
KRYSTAL: It doesn't have to be medical? It can just be-
JACK:' No no no-
KRYSTAL: ...Like: "I'll let you smoke it"?
JACK: "I have a headache. I have a headache."
TAMMY: Well, oh no, like- You have a- "I have rage iss- I have rage issues. I have..."
[Krystal is taken aback.]
KRYSTAL: Bro...
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: They fill out any reason you want. They- You can walk in there-
JASON: [?]
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: We don't.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JASON: No?
TAMMY: And they have clinics all over Los Angeles that you can just walk right in with your card and carry...
JACK: You- You walk in, and it's a shopping mall.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Wow...
JACK: There's- There's- There's product, there's oils, and-
TAMMY: Different flavors and-
JACK: ...Different cooking oils and-
TAMMY: Like a vapor shop here.
JACK: ...It- Yeah. It's- It's-
[Brian and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: I don't- I don't see this on the news or anything. [laughs] Like what?
TAMMY: Well, because it's accepted over there. So it's...
JACK: It's completely... yeah.
KRYSTAL: Then why is Colorado such a big deal? Like, what was the big deal of... I don't know.
TAMMY: Because now they get to tax it. California - they don't tax.
KRYSTAL: Ohhh.
TAMMY: Because it's still-
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: And- And- And you don't need a card anymore. Anybody-
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: They don't have a-
JACK: ...That has a deadly car can go get stoned.
TAMMY: Yeah...
KRYSTAL: That's crazy.
JACK: So- So we, uh... Yeah, um, so that- so that's where we're at right now. He's- you know, he's hanging out with, uh, rappers like Snoop Dogg and Andy Milonakis from MTV. You know, that whole industry that-
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: ...That encourages this whole lifestyle.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: And it's g- He's so deep that he goes to festivals. And... and we love him. We love him, we love him.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And that's his choice.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: And, but, he knows-
KRYSTAL: And he's an adult. I mean, he's accountable for his choices at this point.
TAMMY: Yeah, mm-hmm.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: And, uh, so... We're- We're gonna pray that God touches him when he's here, that we can bring him out of his element-
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: ...And show him this is real life. Where you're at isn't real life. This is real life. This is where people love each other and have barbecues and dogs and fences. This- This really exists.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: A godly world really exists.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And you can have the dream family of- that you want. Um, I'm hoping I can relay that message. We will see. We're- This is kind of where we're at right now.
BRIAN: Is he married or has he been married or?
TAMMY: He's on the verge of talking about it. That's why he's coming here. So hopefully she doesn't watch, but-
[Brian and Tammy laugh.]
TAMMY: 'Cause we're supposed to meet her too at Christmas time.
[Krystal gasps.]
TAMMY: So, um- But yeah, so I mean, he is... He's talking about it, so when he comes here, he's gonna go to our church.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: We have him set up to talk to Pastor Matt, and to Pastor Maury, so that they can talk to him about his worshiping of God.
KRYSTAL: Good!
TAMMY: So that's kinda what we're hoping for, and he wants to- Like, last year without us being there for Christmas - was horrible for him.
BRIAN: Yeah.
TAMMY: Because we were his rock. We were his foundation. We were where he went. And last year at Christmas time was the first Christmas he wasn't there.
KRYSTAL: Yeah. Yeah.
JACK: You're gonna let him-
BRIAN: But sometimes that's a good thing.
TAMMY: It is!
BRIAN: I mean, that's just, you know?
TAMMY: Yeah. Yeah.
JACK: Yeah, but he called- He called crying and- on Christmas Eve, and he goes- he goes: "This is the first year I have nobody for Christmas."
KRYSTAL: Mmmhh.
JACK: And oh man, it just takes your heart right out of your chest.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: It's not about presents, and it's not about- It's just my boy's alone, and he's hurting, and- and you have to watch. And I've... It's just such a tough process. And- and so to help, I'll advise people, like, do what I did. This is to save him. You have to do what you... you know? And they're like: "Well, how do you know?" And I'm like: "I did it."
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: I had to let my son go to hopefully save him someday. So anyway, and that's- that's where we're at right now, the, uh-
BRIAN: So talk to me about how you guys got from California to Nashville.
TAMMY: Okay, so-
KRYSTAL: Yee-haw! [laughs]
JACK: Yeah!
TAMMY: So we have- We vacationed here a couple times with my parents, um, and knew- We had friends. [Jack] has a high school friend that- that lives here, um-
JACK: I never see him!
TAMMY: I have family.
KRYSTAL: So does your family live here, or they just came with you on vacation?
TAMMY: I have family that lives in Goodlettsville.
KRYSTAL: Okay.
TAMMY: Okay. And then I- Uh, it's actually the family - my uncle married me and Jack.
KRYSTAL: Okay.
TAMMY: So it's his family - my mom's brother, his family - and then we have family in Alabama. So we're surrounded by- And it was like- It was Bible Belt. It was a Republican state. It was everything California wasn't!
KRYSTAL: Woohoo!
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: We- So my-
KRYSTAL: There are no green cards like that here either.
JACK: No, no, not at all.
KRYSTAL: We would kno- I would know of where they are.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: There's not any that I've seen.
JACK: If- If there's a green card, it's called Uno the game.
TAMMY: Yeah, exactly.
KRYSTAL: Yeah. It's- There's none of those.
JACK: They- They- They- My viewers- My viewers write me all the time.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And they're like: "Why did you move from California to Tennessee?" And I'm like: "The number one reason was religious freedom." And I- I tell people in Tennessee, and they're in shock. I'm like: "In California, you can be fired for saying God. Talking about God, using His name in the workplace, you can lose your job. You can have no crosses on your desk, nothing referencing your faith at all. Plenty of rainbows on the desk, but no- no-"
KRYSTAL: Like those new Doritos. I'm so mad at Doritos.
[Tammy laughs.]
JACK: Did you see my-
KRYSTAL: Don't even. Don't-
JACK: Yeah?
KRYSTAL: I can't- I can't think about it right now. We have to get through this.
JACK: So- Yes. We- I wanna talk about those Doritos. So... so, um, and the other thing is, as of the year 2000, all lifestyle type or health books or whatever they call them now - in elementary school, it's a mandatory law as any printing after 2013 has to talk about homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.
TAMMY: Or an alternative.
JACK: It's a law now.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And I'm like- Now I just wanna- I wanna go on record, and I wanna say homosexuality is a sexual preference. It is not a lifestyle. It is not a culture.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Simple. It's something that's behind-the-bedroom-door choice, and there's no reason for it in any school, no matter what you're teaching.
TAMMY: Especially elementary.
JACK: It's- It's for Mom and Dad, and you're not gonna teach my child.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: So that was the last straw. He was three year- Uh, Jack Junior was three years away from high school. That's when we started praying.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: We wanted religious freedom. We wanted to buy our first house. We wanted our money's worth. A beautiful home for a low price. We wanted a good economy.
KRYSTAL: And California is not the place to find that.
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: I've watched enough of those HGTV shows. I know what y'all doing out there.
JACK: You must be in shock. You're like: "Half a million for that shack there?"
JENNIFER: [?]
KRYSTAL: I'm like: "There's not even, like, any trim or anything. There's nothin'!"
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: It's terrible!
JACK: It's crazy. It's really crazy.
KRYSTAL: There's no yard. Yeah. It's just... it's bad.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: So, uh, what else? Oh, uhm- No- He was gonna start high school. So we're like: "God, we have three years." We prayed, and we prayed.
TAMMY: He was in private school in California.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Private school, but we couldn't afford high school private out there. We're like: "You know, God..." and our prayer was this, wasn't it? Like: "We don't wanna be here."
TAMMY: Right.
JACK: "But if you want us here in the middle of Sodom and Gomorrah-"
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "...And this is the sinners I'm supposed to reach, I will stay faithful. But you say to us: 'Ask in thanksgiving, and if it's in my will, it will be done.'" And I said: "So I'm gonna continue to ask you, until you tell me otherwise, and I'm gonna continue to stay here faithfully until you tell me otherwise, because I- I won't- we won't- We said we won't go without your blessing."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "We cannot. We'd rather live in hell with your blessing than in Tennessee without you." So I'll let [Tammy] tell this great-
TAMMY: Okay. So for three years, every Sunday, I was looking for a job. And you guys are so... good old boys' club here. Um, it took me forever.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: Rude~
BRIAN: True story!
KRYSTAL: Bless your heart.
[Jack makes a telephone gesture with his hand.]
JACK: She was like: "Yeah, yeah: 'We'll get- we'll get right- We'll get right back to you' means something completely different out here. It means, like, never."
TAMMY: So every- So every-
KRYSTAL: Every few months~
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: You know?
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: So every Sunday for three years, I was looking, and looking and looking.
JACK: Literally. Every week.
TAMMY: And so... literally we had to apply for Jack Junior, because we didn't want him in this school that our son went to school with and had problems. He was gonna go to the school that Jack wanted to, that Garrett actually gradu- graduated from, and we had just gotten the letter saying that they wouldn't allow him to go.
KRYSTAL: Mmmh.
TAMMY: Jack and I- Jack Junior and I were getting ready to go on his eighth grade thing- uh, his eighth grade, uh, Washington, DC, Virginia trip for his, his gar- trip of the year. I got a call, and they're like: "Oh, hi. Um, you applied for a position in Russellville, Kentucky." And I'm like: "Oh. Yeah. Um, okay, which one again? Like, 'cause I applied for it back in November and we're now in March!"
BRIAN: Yeah.
JASON: Wow...
TAMMY: Right? I'm like-
KRYSTAL: I'm from Kentucky, so be nice about Kentucky.
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
TAMMY: You know-
JACK: No, that wa- Listen, we know that was quick for Kentucky!
TAMMY: Yeah... Yeah...
BRIAN: Yeah, that's right.
KRYSTAL: You knooooow, I mean...
TAMMY: Yeah. Well, I mean- And I will tell you-
BRIAN: It's a slower pace.
TAMMY: Yeah. So-
JACK: Oh my goodness.
TAMMY: So we... so I submitted-
JACK: Let me get your application.
[Jack gestures picking up paper and blowing dust off it.]
JACK: Oh, "Tammy", that's it.
TAMMY: So I had two phone interviews. My longest, uh, FaceTime interview - 45 minutes on FaceTime.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
TAMMY: And, um, then they flew me in. Like- So we went on- Jack [Junior] and I went on our eighth grade trip, and then we came back, and then she was going somewhere. So then a week after, after I did month- It was- Honestly, it was God working the magic all the way through-
JACK: So fast.
TAMMY: ...Because it was- It was literally- After I was able to do my month in at my- my old job in California, I came out, called in sick two days, did my interview in Russellville, came back home. A week later, they gave me the offer: "How long can you- before you come back?" And I said: "Well, I need two- at least two to three weeks here, because now we're a month in. I'd like to get them through their month in." Um, and they said okay, and then we drove out here. So literally, from the time I got my job offer to the time I started my job, was five weeks.
KRYSTAL: Oh, wow.
TAMMY: Um, and we-
KRYSTAL: And then a cross-country-
TAMMY: Yes.
KRYSTAL: ...Move at that point?
TAMMY: Yes.
JACK: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: So we literally went from owning our house- I mean, buy- uh, renting our house in California, to buying our house, contingent on walkthrough - 24 hours before we were able to walk through - had to buy it without seeing it. After seeing it with our friends and everything. I mean, just, doors were opening. My boss in California was like: "You know, you still can stay here." And I'm like: "You know, honestly, if the doors are being shut in any way, we would consider it."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: "But they're, like, flying open. Like, I'm lit- How can you tell me to stay here?"
JACK: Our house closed in three weeks.
KRYSTAL: Wow.
JACK: Three weeks, it was ours. Done.
TAMMY: "How can you tell me to stay here when I'm going from renting a house to buying a house and making less money?"
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
TAMMY: You know? I mean, it's like- It just is- It wasn't even-
KRYSTAL: In a market that seemed, I'm sure, very reasonable-
TAMMY: Right.
KRYSTAL: ...And good compared to what you're coming from.
TAMMY: Right.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
TAMMY: So we... we moved here. We stayed in our timeshare for 45 days. One bedroom.
KRYSTAL: Ohhh, yikes.
TAMMY: Yeah, so because we had to wait for the whole process. And I mean-
JACK: It was horrible.
[Brian laughs.]
TAMMY: They- I mean, the- the- Uh, the people in Russellville, they paid for our move, they paid for our hotel, they paid for-
JACK: They paid for everything!
TAMMY: They paid for everything!
JENNIFER: Wow.
JASON: Wow.
TAMMY: So they were-
JACK: How much? 20 grand in bills?
TAMMY: Yeah. It was- It was amazing!
JACK: It was a total blessing.
BRIAN: That's awesome.
TAMMY: So, I mean-
JACK: We could've done it. Never have we-
TAMMY: So we- We moved here.
KRYSTAL: That was worth the wait?
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
TAMMY: So, yeah.
JACK: "You're praying? $20,000? Sure."
TAMMY: So we get here, and you guys are about two weeks from ending school. So Jack [Junior] literally wants to play football, starting- he's playing for Beech.
KRYSTAL: Now, is that last year or was that this year?
TAMMY: This is last year.
KRYSTAL: Last year.
TAMMY: Last year.
KRYSTAL: Okay.
TAMMY: So, um, he was a freshman going in, so he literally- School ended, he jumped right in, wanted to play football, so he had the whole summer-
JACK: To do practice with the other boys!
TAMMY: ...Do practice. So-
JACK: So when school started, he had all his friends in place.
TAMMY: Right.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And there was no-
KRYSTAL: A seamless...
JACK: Yeah! It was amazing.
JASON: A friendly transition!
[Jack points at Jason.]
JACK: Exactly.
TAMMY: It- It was very perfect. So-
JASON: [?]
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Perfect. You know, being the guy, you know that you gotta camaraderie with the guys and go take on high school.
TAMMY: So then I loved the people I worked for in Russellville, Kentucky. They're amazing people. Um, there was a reason why I left there, but that's okay. Um, that's a whole another story.
[Brian and Tammy laugh.]
TAMMY: Um, so we go from... Now we're [at the] moving-in day, and moving in our house, and all of our stuff comes. Umm... EVERYTHING was damaged.
[Jack grimaces and sighs.]
BRIAN: Ohh ho ho...
TAMMY: Like, our- our washer, I don't even know how it got damaged, but the whole thing was just caved in like you- someone jumped on it from two stories in.
[Krystal gasps and laughs.]
TAMMY: Like, I don't even know how a washer can look like that.
JACK: It was like this.
[Jack makes a V-shape with his arms.]
JACK: And you just saw the indents-
TAMMY: His cast iron grill on his stove was snapped off.
BRIAN: Ohh ho ho...
TAMMY: My- Our bedroom set, the headboard, you couldn't put it back together 'cause they- they took it apart. Um, my dresser that was wrapped in a blanket had knobs ripped off and gashes in it, and I'm just like-
JACK: Chunks of wood were missing!
TAMMY: "So EVERYTHING." But of course, Jack Junior's single bed that he's had since he was five was completely perfect.
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: And we hated it! We wanted to light it on fire!
KRYSTAL: But your washer's caved in!
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Yeah. So we, uh- How do you break ca- I- A cast iron stove top, and they broke it.
TAMMY: So-
JACK: I couldn't break it if I tried.
TAMMY: So that was a very emotional day, but yet, we were still very blessed to be here. So we're in our house, like, living on furniture. Like, sleeping on a mattress on the floor, because we have to go through the whole settlement. And so we finally, after nine [or] 10 months, get the settlement and are able to replace everything.
JACK: Oh, let's talk about our search for a church.
TAMMY: Okay.
JACK: [To Brian] You guys ever heard that story?
BRIAN: Mm-mm.
TAMMY: Okay.
JACK: [To Krystal] Did you? Do we have-
KRYSTAL: I work at church, so I think I know a bit of it, but I don't know that I know all of it.
TAMMY: Okay.
KRYSTAL: So...
JACK: So we- So, uh, we were- Our number one thing was get a church, find a home. We need a home.
[Jack points up.]
JACK: That ain't our home.
KRYSTAL: Right.
JACK: The church is our home. And we said: "We're gonna commit. As soon as we get settled in, we're in our house - we're gonna go every week, and we're going to- every Sunday we're gonna try a new church." So I'm not-
[The microphones' volume gets lowered.]
KRYSTAL: Oh, hang on. Our- Our studio audience has a question.
[Brian and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Yeah, yeah!
KRYSTAL: Yes, Jennifer. Wait, hold on.
JENNIFER: [?]
[Krystal pulls her microphone off the stand and gives it to Jennifer. Jack mumbles something.]
JENNIFER: What kind of church did you go to be- in California?
[Krystal puts her microphone back.]
JACK: Uh-
TAMMY: It was- We, we, we went to- Well, okay, so... we went to a church. They're- They're both non-denominational. So we went to a church that we raised Garrett in, um, for almost, what, 20 years? 15, 20 years. And we left that church three years before we left here- before we came here, um, for- for-
JACK: It changed...
TAMMY: ...For different reasons.
JACK: Yeah.
TAMMY: Um-
JACK: Non-denominational is all we... We just cared about the Bible.
TAMMY: Like, yeah.
JACK: We didn't- We didn't want any book that came alongside it. We didn't want any rituals that came alongside it. And if it ain't in the- If it ain't in the Word - it ain't.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Period.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And so we stuck with non-denominational to be safe. So that's where we came from, and then we, uh- When we came out here, we looked for the closest thing. We- Everybody had a name. It was- There was no such thing as non-denominational.
[Jack coughs and excuses himself.]
TAMMY: And knowing Jack's background, I knew he- Baptist was not the way he wanted to go-
[Brian laughs.]
TAMMY: ...Because I know what Baptist is. And even in California, it was still a little different than out here.
BRIAN: Heh.
TAMMY: But my uncle was a Baptist pastor, and my aunt never wore anything that was showing her knees. So I knew-
[Sudden jumpcut as Jack erupts into more coughing.]
TAMMY: Okay, so the churches even in California where we went to are very "come as you are." Like, football season, we're all sporting our jerseys, and flip-flops and everything.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: So I knew that that's what Jack, you know, not-
KRYSTAL: This would be maybe more conservative-
TAMMY: Yes.
KRYSTAL: ...Versus that-
TAMMY: Yes.
KRYSTAL: ...Where you came from.
TAMMY: So- So anyway, so I knew Baptist. I'm like: "Stay away from the Baptist. You don't want Baptist because I'm s- You'll- You'll go back to your roots, like, not going to church."
JACK: And we won't- We're not gonna name names of churches out of respect.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: But, uh, first church we went to... they didn't- They played music, and it was all '70s rock and not one co- not one Godly song at all!
TAMMY: Not one Christian- Nothing.
JACK: And the guy's got hippie hair, and I'm like: "Okay..."
TAMMY: Well, in their defense, they were-
KRYSTAL: Great taste, '70s rock's awesome!
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
TAMMY: Well- And they were very- They were very opening. Like, they showed us the kids' room 'cause the kids were on camp that week, and- and Jack's like: "Well..." I mean, 'cause Jack had one question that he would always know to ask a pastor.
JACK: It's- It's: "Will you conduct a gay marriage?"
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: It's really simple. It's the one question you can ask any church, and it tells you everything about the church. And, uh, and the guy-
TAMMY: So he asked this la- Like, he asked this lady that was showing, and she's like: [smacks lips] "Well, I really think you should talk to the pastor about that, because my daughter's lesbian and- and we're okay with it, but you can talk to the pastor on his stance on that." We're like: "Oh. Hmmmh..."
JACK: So I walk up to the pastor. I'm like: "Hey, I'm just gonna ask you one question. Would you do a gay wedding?" And he's like: "Well..." I'm like: "Hey, nice knowing ya."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Okay. The moment he started "Well"-ing me-
KRYSTAL: I just needed a no.
JACK: Are you really thinking? Really? So we went to another church, which, uh- which was okay. It wasn't- It wasn't mature enough yet. You could tell it was a starter church, a planted church that needed to grow a lot more.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: It wasn't really where we wanted to go. Um, and- I- I'm like- I just... I just- So I asked him: "Would you do a gay wedding?" and- at the end of service, I always waited 'til after. And he's like- He's like: "No." I'm like: "Oh, okay. Well, that's cool." I said: "But it's- This isn't really... I'm looking for a church that teaches straight out of the Bible, that will kick my butt out of the chair, and does nothing but Chris Tomlin music!"
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Look, let's- Let's be real about this!
KRYSTAL: It is established!
JACK: Yeah, and I'd like an order of fries with that.
JACK: And he goes: "Oh! Yeah, you want Cornerstone!" Really!? Did you just send me to another church!? I was: "Awesome!"
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: It- Yeah, so- So we- We decide next, err, Wednesday, kids night and-
TAMMY: Well, we thought first the one in Madison was a satellite church, and I'm like: "I'm not going to sit there and watch a video! I wanna s- touch the- see the pastor! I wanna see him there!"
JACK: And then somebody told us it wasn't a satellite.
TAMMY: Right.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: It's a re- It's where it's happening. So we go Wednesday night, uh, to- We're like: "Okay, look, we're just gonna drop you off. We're gonna go Sunday. I know they have a Wednesday service, but we're not gonna sit at that." So-
[Brian and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: I mean, we're in the Bible Belt, but really? Come on... [laughs]
JACK: Yeah, yeah. Wednesday? Wednesday's like-
KRYSTAL: What's up with that?
JACK: ...Modern Family or something. Like, I don't even know why church is even open on Wednesday. So- So we- w- So we dropped them off, and we're walking by, and it's about ready to start. And she's like: "Well, why don't we just sit? I don't wanna have to go all the way home, and then come back in an hour. We'll just, we'll sit through the service. Let's check it out."
TAMMY: Mm-hmm.
JACK: So we sit down, and Pastor Davis gets up there, and he's like- First thing I hear him say: "We need to napalm the Palestinians." I'm like- I look at my hunny. I'm like: "Hunny, did he just say... Did the pastor just say we need to, like, wipe out a whole- everybody, like, over there?"
TAMMY: Yeah, for five minutes.
JACK: And he's like: "Yeah." And I- I'm like- I'm like, I stood up. "Where do I sign up?" Where- Just take all my money, do whatever.
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Seriously, this is- Any pastor-
KRYSTAL: "Do you have, like, a room? Can I get a cot or something? Like, I'll just stay here."
JACK: Exactly.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
BRIAN: "Put my tithe on auto debit!"
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: Right! I know! So it- So it- We knew it, the second he said that. The second he wasn't afraid about who's judging him, and he spoke the truth. "I don't hold back." And I thought: "This is the man I want to teach me. This is the guy who's gonna- who's gonna tell me: "Jack, quit pretending you're a Christian. Get out and save the world. It takes action." And that's the guy I wanted. So that's how we got to Cornerstone.
KRYSTAL: So here's what I wanna ask. So this was Wednesday night. So what did you do that Saturday morning?
JACK: Saturday morning?
TAMMY: Oh, yeah. That was the men's thing. Okay, well, first-
JACK: I'm like: "Hunny, did you tell them-"
TAMMY: Wait, wait, wait!
JACK: "Did you tell them about our Saturday morning?"
TAMMY: No! First let's talk about-
KRYSTAL: No!
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: I'm like: "Hunny, what did you guys talk before- before the show?"
TAMMY: What are you talking about?!
KRYSTAL: So this is- This is the part I may know, but I thought I was like-
JACK: I thought that was our time.
KRYSTAL: I was like: "This guy's either amazing or crazy. I don't know which one."
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: It could go either way.
TAMMY: So... when we first walked in on Wednesday, we couldn't even get to our seats. And we all know how women are, right? Like, they don't talk to anybody new, right?
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: Like, nobody talked to me.
JACK: No matter what city we were in.
TAMMY: Which is fine, and I don't care 'cause I don't like women. But it's okay!
JACK: You hate women!
[Krystal laughs.]
TAMMY: So, um- Like, we couldn't even get to our seats. Jack was talking to, like, 25 guys.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
TAMMY: Like Bud, then Rusty, then- I mean, just like- I'm like, oh, I'm just standing next to you. "I'm his wife. I'm his wife."
KRYSTAL: "Hello, I'm here!"
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: Oh. Oh, yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: When I- When I walked in on Sun-
TAMMY: No- It was- It was Wednesday!
JACK: ...or Saturday or Wednesday?
TAMMY: It was Wednesday.
JACK: Wednesday.
TAMMY: Because that's when you met Bud. Bud met you at the door. Then he introduced you to Rusty.
JACK: So Bud walks me over.
TAMMY: Yeah?
KRYSTAL: Bud...
JACK: Bud's a tall guy.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: He immediately brings me to Rusty. "Rusty, this guy", da da da da da. And Rusty goes: "Nice to meet you." He goes, um- He goes: "Hey, you want to, uh, help out with the men's breakfast?" And I'm like: "Um, sure. I cook for a living." And, uh, he says: "All right." He- I said: "What time do you want me there?" He goes: "4:30 in the morning." That's not when I eat breakfast!
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: He's like-
KRYSTAL: "I'm confused!"
JACK: ...He's like: "You gonna show? You need to bring your man card if you're gonna show. If you're not gonna show... yeah."
KRYSTAL: "We are highly committed and disciplined."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: I'm like: "I'll show. I'll be there before you!" So I showed up for- for the men's breakfast.
KRYSTAL: So that was on Saturday.
TAMMY: No, Wednesday.
KRYSTAL: They visited on Wednesday, and he showed up on Saturday at the men's breakfast to serve.
TAMMY: And I stayed in bed 'cause it was for men.
JACK: Yeah. I was cooking my assignment and-
KRYSTAL: So again, I was like: "The guy's either crazy or he's awesome. One or the other."
JACK: Oh, I- Yeah.
KRYSTAL: You know?
JACK: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Maybe both. I don't know.
BRIAN: I think- I think it's still out on which one. [laughs]
KRYSTAL: Yeah, it could be.
JACK: Yeah, the jury's still out.
TAMMY: I can tell you he's crazy. It's all good.
KRYSTAL: But- But to feel that quickly, this is- this is where we're gonna be planted at, and to know this is where we belong-
TAMMY: Right.
JACK: People literally said: "You act like you've been here for years-"
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "...And you've only been here a month." And I knew everybody in a month. It was crazy.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: It was... I had more friends, like, in the first few months than in all my life in California. It was- It- I- Unexplainable. So...
KRYSTAL: That's awesome. That's very cool.
TAMMY: So then you signed up for Pastor Davis's Bible study 'cause we was on enrollment.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Yeah, Pastor Davis is in the parking lot 'cause we were doing the remodel, so he's directing traffic. I'm thinking: "The senior pastor's di-" It's dark outside, so he's waving me down. I'm the only one in there. There's no traffic.
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: I pull up, I'm like: "Uh, yes, sir?" He goes: "Just park over there. We're going in this door." Okay! So I get out and-
KRYSTAL: Which means somebody may not have done their job.
JACK: Right...
[Everyone laughs.]
JACK: Yeah, so- Hah, sorry.
KRYSTAL: "God works in those ways!" No, it's all good.
JACK: So I walk up to him and I go- I go: "Hi, sir, my name's..." He goes: "I know who you are." I went: "What?" He goes: "I know who you are. Your name's Jack Scafani. You have a really big YouTube show, and you have, uh, food products that you- that you market and..." A- A- And I'm like: "Really? A- and how am I gonna do in three years?"
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: I was like... he knew everything about me. And he's the senior pastor. And... and it- We clicked. It's- It's really cool tha- that I'm able to sit down with the senior pastor, have conversations...
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: ...And just talk. And, uh- And he truly listens. I've always wanted- I have so many great ideas, and I've always wanted to share my ideas. And he listens! And, uh, you know, he'll tune out if it's not a good idea. He-
KRYSTAL: And- And he'll-
BRIAN: And this- This is what you get when he starts tuning out.
[Brian head-bobs.]
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: The head bob. The head bob, yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: You know you're- you're done.
TAMMY: And we got that there. He's lost it.
JACK: All right.
KRYSTAL: But- And he's honest, so he'll tell you if it's a terrible idea, or if it's a good idea.
JACK: Exactly.
KRYSTAL: You don't have to worry.
JACK: Does he watch- Does he watch this, or listen to this podcast?
BRIAN: Uh...
KRYSTAL: We don't know.
BRIAN: Who knows?
JACK: Well, we'll find out!
KRYSTAL: Hey, pastor~ [laughs]
BRIAN: It gets talked about every week, so he should be. [laughs]
JACK: I'm gonna- I'm gonna talk about him right now. You wanna- You know how to make the pastor happy?
KRYSTAL: How?
JACK: You wanna have a long conversation with him?
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Longer than you thought? Alright, try pulling away from him.
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: Ohhh.
JACK: If you- If you- If you try to leave him alone, he engages. It- I got your number, pastor! Yeah.
KRYSTAL: He likes people. Yeah.
JACK: He doesn't like people who just cling onto him and won't let him go to his office, or to get to the next person who needs help, or whatever. So you- I- And I do it with all the pastors. It's- It's a kind of a respect. I know your time's valuable and you're-
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: ...You're helping out a lot. I always do that. So he's like: "Oh, hey, Jack. Hey, so what did you think of-" "Oh, it was great!" And I start to pull away a little bit and I'm start- "Yeah, yeah, I can't wait 'til tonight." And he keeps talking.
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: And so I gotta walk back to him and I- And if you- If you give him that freedom that he can leave whenever he needs to - 'cause he gets so bombarded. I- I feel bad.
BRIAN: Oh, yeah.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
JACK: And it's- It's hard. He always-
KRYSTAL: Well, you've got, you know, thousands of sheep that you're pastoring.
BRIAN: We were at Second Saturday the other week, and he wasn't there, and so I FaceTimed him. And he answered!
[Jack and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: And I was mortified. I was going: "Do not FaceTime him! Do NOT FaceTime him!"
BRIAN: Everybody's cracking up. Everybody's cracking up like: "You're FaceTiming pastor?"
JACK: That's great.
KRYSTAL: I was like: "Yeah, I'm FaceTiming pastor!"
TAMMY: Good!
BRIAN: He's sitting on his back porch. He's like: "What are you doing?" I'm like: "What are YOU doing? You're supposed to be here."
KRYSTAL: We're like-
BRIAN: He's like: "I'm not supposed to be there. I'm sitting on my back porch."
[Brian, Jack and Tammy laugh.]
KRYSTAL: This is Galen- This is Galen's thing.
JACK: That's right!
TAMMY: I told- I told-
KRYSTAL: Pastor Galen Davis.
JACK: Great.
TAMMY: ...I told our Bible study that our church that we all go to is the biggest smallest ran church.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: 'Cause you literally feel like you walk in and it's a small church, even though it's humongous.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: Everybody's treat you like Little House on the Prairie.
TAMMY: It's just so amazing.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: It's just like Little House on the Prairie. Everybody-
KRYSTAL: Part of that's our Southern charm and hospitality. I'm just gonna throw that out there.
TAMMY: Yes.
JACK: What do you- Do you do PR? Is that what you do at the church?
KRYSTAL: No! No, I don't!
JACK: Oh, I'm just curious. [laughs]
KRYSTAL: I'm just saying- I'm just saying as a proud Southerner.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: It's our Southern charm.
JACK: No, I- I love it. I love everybody here. Uh, I- I love the saying- People love the saying is that "Tennessee is the closest thing to heaven without dying." And I really mean it.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: It truly is.
BRIAN: Well, and- And you know, w- We- We have great families, but the church, because you spend so much time there - they become your family.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
BRIAN: You know, when- When you don't have family around to help out. I mean, yesterday we were in desperate need of help, and Jennifer helped us-
[Brian and Krystal gesture at Jennifer, who is off-camera.]
BRIAN: ...Picking up kids and doing things.
[Krystal and Tammy start clapping.]
TAMMY: Yay!
KRYSTAL: Yay!
JACK: Yay!
JACK: You went home with your parents too?
BRIAN: But- But that's what the body's for.
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
BRIAN: I mean, that's what the church is.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Yeah.
BRIAN: The church-
KRYSTAL: And, and we ac-
JACK: Oh, yeah-
KRYSTAL: ...Yeah, we literally were talking about this; how sometimes we were looking around at- at a room full of people, or at a- at a wedding and thinking about some of the different couples there, and how you don't really see or hear that much about their- their blood relatives-
TAMMY: Mm-hmm.
KRYSTAL: ...Maybe because of where they are in life, or where they live, or different things, but how connected- And I said that it's like, their family is truly inside-
TAMMY: Mm-hmm.
KRYSTAL: ...Inside the church.
TAMMY: It is.
KRYSTAL: That- That is your family and your connection. Um, so go on.
[Krystal gestures at Tammy.]
TAMMY: Well, so last year for our- for Christmas, we'll do that. Um-
JACK: You're like this...
TAMMY: Jack was raised that only your family- like, your immediate family comes to Christmas dinner. Like Christmas, Christmas dinner.
JACK: Oh, wait, what story are you telling?
[Krystal laughs.]
TAMMY: Relax! So I told him when we got- When we got our own house-
KRYSTAL: Like the family?
TAMMY: ...If anybody was gonna be alone for Christmas, after presents- after the morning presents... they're welcome to come to our house. God, it's just I- Nobody should be al- And that's how I was raised. Nobody should be alone for Christmas.
KRYSTAL: Right. Right.
TAMMY: You know, so- You know, whatever. So with that policy that we created with our new house here in Tennessee, we had... Uh, and this is coming here from May last year when we first got here.
JACK: And we're like: "Oh, So and So- Oh, so what do you do for Ch- Where do you go for Christmas?" "Oh, nowhere. I just don't have family anymore."
TAMMY: Yeah...
JACK: I'm like: "Oh, well, why don't you come over to our house?"
KRYSTAL: Awww.
JACK: And that caught over to these people-
TAMMY: Yeah...
JACK: ...And these people had nowhere to go, and they're like: "Hey, you know what? The So And Sos, they don't- They don't have family either."
TAMMY: Yeah...
JACK: "Maybe they can-" Okay, yeah, bring that family over. Sure.
KRYSTAL: Gift of hospitality maybe? Yeah?
TAMMY: 20 people for Christmas dinner.
JACK: 20 people.
KRYSTAL: That's great!
BRIAN: Ohh ho ho...
TAMMY: Ugh... Yeah...
JACK: It was like-
KRYSTAL: Don't you love it, though? I mean-
TAMMY: Well, y- No, it was- It was amazing. It was- I mean, they were at our house 'til like, 9:00, 10:00.
KRYSTAL: Were you a little bit bitter?
TAMMY: No, I- Okay, we love to entertain.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: So I'm like the back- I mean, [Jack] does the cooking. I'm not a cook. Mmmh, nah. It sucks.
[Krystal laughs.]
JACK: She cooks cereal!
TAMMY: Yeah.
[Brian laughs.]
TAMMY: I'll go buy a pie, okay?
KRYSTAL: Yeah.
TAMMY: So- Or vegetables, whatever.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: So 20 people at our house, and my parents are coming, right?
[Krystal gasps.]
TAMMY: And I tell my mom, I'm like: "Mom, um- We got people coming to our house for Christmas. I know you're gonna be here, and it- You know." She says: "Just as long as your dad has a seat, that's all I care about." I'm like: "Mom, I'm not putting a sign on my seat for my dad."
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
TAMMY: "So if dad wants to sit there all night... I love you. That's good." So-
JACK: Yeah, I wouldn't move 'cause-
KRYSTAL: He's gonna have to stay planted!
JASON: [?]
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: Yeah, that's- That's not your seat, so I wouldn't move. Better hold it yourself.
JASON: [?]
TAMMY: So realize, 20 people in our house, no furniture - because it's all broken up, our living room furniture. So we have folding tables. We have chairs that I got to borrow from Russellville, Kentucky, from our- our break room. So I mean, it was amazing. It was a really good time.
KRYSTAL: That's great.
TAMMY: My parents got to see the true Tennessee southern love that was there.
BRIAN: Yeah.
TAMMY: Because it was just like we had known these people for years.
KRYSTAL: That's great.
TAMMY: And, um- So my parents came back this year for Fourth of July.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And they stayed in our house 27 days. Um-
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
BRIAN: Give or take!
TAMMY: No!
JACK: That's- That should be illegal!
KRYSTAL: That- That's a lengthy stay. [laughs]
TAMMY: Wait... you gotta cut that out.
[Everyone starts laughing.]
JACK: ...Oh.
KRYSTAL: What he meant to say was-
JACK: "We love you!" Right, cut filming at this point.
TAMMY: "It was awesoooome! It was am-"
JACK: "We love them in our house!"
KRYSTAL: It's the best 27 days since you have lived here.
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: I wasn't done! It should be illegal- They should stay for 31! A full month.
TAMMY: Anyway-
BRIAN: There you go. The invitation's back out.
TAMMY: So because- NO!- So... they were here for 27 days, and they got to see how busy our life was.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And, like- My dad, like, literally was just so exhausted from running around. He's like-
JACK: Crazy.
TAMMY: I mean, 'cause we, like- Our only free nights right now are Tuesday and Thursday.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: That's it. And he's like: "You don't want me to st- Their life is so busy. I don't want it to be like that."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: "It's just so exhausting."
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
TAMMY: And I'm like, do they not remember when I was in high school, I was constantly running them around, too? Like, I have a high schooler.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Well, is it the perspective of, is it busy, or is it full? You have a full life?
TAMMY: Yeah. Well, we're- We're- We're constantly going-
JACK: Oh, yeah.
TAMMY: We're juggling between, you know, going- I mean, we- We go to church, like, three, four days a week now. Like, not just to go to church, but Bible study, then Jack's gotta go to church, or whatever. And my dad's like: "I guess, um..." That was the night where he, we went Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday, and Jack had an event on Friday night.
[Brian laughs.]
TAMMY: And he's like: "Well, Jack really spends a lot of time at that church..."
[Krystal laughs.]
TAMMY: And I'm like: "Yeah? Like, he's connecting with the- the- his fellow people and his- his people he's gonna be doing life with." And he's like: "Well, I kinda guess it keeps him out of trouble." I'm like, "Well, it narrows it down."
[Brian, Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
JACK: Yeah, and I'm like- I said- I said: "Look", I said: "This is- This is where we do life."
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: "We do. We- We eat with these people, and we play with these people, and we laugh with these people." I said: "It just happens to be we all go to the same church."
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: But, uh, it- It was interesting. We have unbeliever friends, and, with- that we hang out with, and that we really love and care about.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: But it was- It was interesting. I- I analyze things too much, but... A- And we invited them over for Christmas dinner to join us too, and it- and yet it- it wasn't the same. They felt out of place. Uh... they just didn't relax and kinda fit in. And I'm like- A- And I felt really bad because they're such great people. They have hearts as big as everybody in that room, and yet they- there's something missing.
KRYSTAL: Mm-hmm.
JACK: And I don't know how to explain that. And I can't explain it to them. And I felt really bad. But, uh, they were good people. But, uh- And you know Tony at church?
BRIAN: Tony...?
JACK: The parking lot Tony.
TAMMY: Doore.
BRIAN: Oh, yeah. I know.
TAMMY: Yeah, and he runs the parking lot now. Yeah.
JACK: Yeah, he runs the parking lot. He's "Head of Parking Lot"!
KRYSTAL: Ouhhh. Nice briefing. [laughs]
JACK: So, um- Uh, he- He's not one to go out and be with people, and he's more of an introvert. And we're really close. I met him the morning of the men's breakfast.
KRYSTAL: Oh, that's cool.
JACK: He sat next to me, and we bonded in five minutes. He goes: "I've never bonded with a guy like- You know- I mean- We're- I- I wanna hang out. Let's go do breakfast." And anyway, he came to our house. He stayed as lo- All night! The whole night, and we-
TAMMY: He was the life of the party!
[Brian and Krystal laugh.]
JACK: He was the life of the whole party!
TAMMY: Oh my gosh, everybody was around him!
JACK: And he said: "That was the best Christmas I've ever had."
KRYSTAL: Oh, that's very cool.
JACK: And I'm like: "Ahhh..." So that's kind of-
BRIAN: That's what it's about!
JACK: ...All of it in a nutshell there.
TAMMY: Yeah.
BRIAN: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: That's awesome.
JACK: Wow. It's been a crazy life.
KRYSTAL: Good story.
TAMMY: Yeah.
KRYSTAL: So Tammy has a normal job. Jack is on YouTube and has somewhat of a- a-
TAMMY: Tough drive up the stairs going to work.
[Krystal and Tammy laugh.]
BRIAN: Yeah.
TAMMY: Yeah!
BRIAN: Yeah...
KRYSTAL: He's gotta comb his hair to get ready!
TAMMY: Yeah!
JACK: Yeah! Um, yeah, that's about it.
TAMMY: Yeah...
BRIAN: Well, that's awesome. And, you know, it- it is. It's funny. It's definitely- God orchestrates things and puts people in your life. And, uh, you know, Jack and I have talked. I- It- It wasn't coincidence that- that we met up and had a connection. And, uh, we definitely have a love of food, and I'm sure we'll eat many more meals together over the-
[Jack does a self-clasping handshake.]
BRIAN: ...The course of, uh, the years to come. So, we love you guys. Thank you for coming on, and being with us, and sharing your story.
JACK: We love you guys, too. Thank you so much.
TAMMY: We love you, too.
KRYSTAL: Absolutely. It was great.
BRIAN: Yeah. Um, so definitely check out Jack's sauces. I'm telling you, you won't regret it.
KRYSTAL: And isn't the teriyaki, is it low sodium, or is it-
TAMMY: Yes, low sodium per demands.
KRYSTAL: ...Which I puff up like a pu-
TAMMY: And low in sugar!
KRYSTAL: ...Pufferfish. So I appreciate that greatly.
JACK: Yes.
BRIAN: Yes.
KRYSTAL: So yeah, it's really good.
BRIAN: So good... Um, so check Jack out, YouTube - Cooking With Jack, Jack On The Go. Uh, the website for your sauces - Best Sauces Ever?
JACK: TheBestSauces.com.
BRIAN: BestSauces.com.
JACK: Mm-hmm.
BRIAN: Uh, so you can go and order them there. Or if you're local, just tell him. He'll bring them to you at church.
[Tammy laughs.]
JACK: Or- Or come by the house.
BRIAN: Or come by the house. That's right.
JACK: I have an open door. I have an open door policy. I'm in Tennessee now.
BRIAN: Yeah.
JACK: If- If the garage is open, the house is open.
KRYSTAL: And I know where you live when I run because I- I see the- the van.
TAMMY: Yes.
[Brian laughs.]
KRYSTAL: I'm like: "Oh, that's- That's his van right there! Right there!"
BRIAN: You can't miss his van. It's wrapped.
TAMMY: Yeah.
JACK: Oh, that's true, huh?
TAMMY: Yeah.
BRIAN: So, uh, thank you guys for listening. We've been getting some good feedback this week, um, and just a crazy spike in traffic this week, and lots of, uh, downloads and- and views on the videos. And so, um- Lots of people stopping at, at church this week just randomly and asking questions. So it's been- It's been good. It's been exciting. And, um, we will, starting in October, the last Sunday of each m- uh, each month, we're gonna have, uh, a new thing that we're doing called the Marriage Toolbox, where we'll sit down with Jason and Jennifer, and we'll go over some of the foundational things, um, that we- that we go over in the Marriage 101 life group that we do. So be sure to check that out. We'll talk about, you know, what a biblical marriage is and the purpose for a biblical marriage. We'll talk about finances, and sex, and love and respect.
KRYSTAL: "Let's talk about sex, baby!"
[Everyone laughs.]
BRIAN: Hey, Krystal-
JACK: Hey, that's copyright infringement!
BRIAN: Oh-
KRYSTAL: It wasn't that long!
JACK: That's it. Come on. Time's out.
BRIAN: It's over!
[Krystal looks over at Jennifer.]
KRYSTAL: That's what she said!
[Everyone laughs harder.]
BRIAN: She had to go there. She had to go there... and you just left Jason hanging. He probably signed up for-
KRYSTAL: I love it!
[Krystal high-fives Jason.]
JACK: Great! YouTube just changed the rating!
BRIAN: Yeah. Yep, that's it. So, um, check us out: SundayEveningCoffee.com. Send us an email. Let us know what you think about the show. Any feedback, we'd love to hear it: SundayEveningCoffee@gmail.com. So, um- As always, go to iTunes, review, rate, subscribe. That does make a difference. And I- I say this, and I- I don't mean it from a haughty standpoint, but seriously subscribe because I would love to have good Christian content be up in the new and noteworthy, as opposed to some of the stuff that's out there. So, uh, go check that out. And, uh- Again, thanks to Jack and Tammy for being here, and Jason and Jennifer, as always. And we will see you guys next week. Have a good night!
Highlights
Jack doesn't understand consent
Beginning at the 13:30 mark, Jack explains how he first went out with Tammy. Two months after she had broken up with Jack's friend Jay, Jack asked her out, only for her to reject him because of her work duties. Jack, feeling angry and entitled to her, said this "really upset me 'cause I was the DJ." Instead of taking a no as a no, Jack then describes going to Tammy's local bowling alley to harass her two more times before she finally gave in. He explains his mindset:
| “ | I asked her out three times! And I basically got the message to her that this ain't ever gonna stop. This is not- So you either need to go out with me and say: "It's not gonna work out" or- But we ARE going out. | ” |
Jack recalls choking Garrett
The infamous standout moment of the podcast occurred when Jack openly admitted to having choked his son Garrett - not once, but twice. At the 25:15 mark, Jack states:
| “ | He put his hand on me, and- and it wasn't like he pushed me, but it was in an aggressive way. And I took him down to the ground. I threw him down to the ground. And then the second time, he put his hands on... Tammy. [...] I took him to the ground and I was gonna kill him. [...] I was choking him and screaming in his ears: "You don't ever touch a woman. You don't EVER touch a woman!" at the top of my voice. I was choking him so hard, his nose started to bleed. And... I didn't know when to stop. | ” |
Jack's description of the events, disturbingly punctuated with self-justifications, painted a grim picture. He later emphasized how Garrett "submitted" during the ordeal, explaining that his son did not fight back or resist, though Jack struggled to discern whether this was due to respect, fear, or love. Jack recounted his thought process with unsettling nonchalance, stating: "The only time you stopped fighting in school was [when] the principal was coming."
The interview also highlighted Jack's resentment toward his own parents, whom he blamed for "enabling" Garrett after he was kicked out at 16. Jack expressed his frustration over their decision to take Garrett in, claiming they undermined his tough-love approach and gave Garrett "carte blanche" to continue down a destructive path. Jack’s dismay was evident when he lamented: "In my mind, they ruined everything."
Jack endorses Palestinian genocide
At the 51:43 mark of the podcast, Jack showcased yet another egregious example of his inability to comprehend the gravity of his words. Following the earlier account where he bragged about choking his teenage son, Jack pivoted to another narrative that was equally tasteless, if not more so: He recounted his experience at a Wednesday service at Cornerstone Church, led by the controversial Pastor Maury Davis, a convicted murderer-turned-preacher. Jack and Tammy, killing time while waiting to pick someone up, decided to "sit through the service." Jack describes how, early in the sermon, Pastor Davis proclaimed: "We need to napalm the Palestinians." Jack gleefully recounted his response, saying: "I stood up. Where do I sign up? Take all my money!" before bursting into laughter. Jack stated he admired how Davis "wasn't afraid about who's judging him, and he spoke the truth." Tammy added that Davis waffled on about this for five whole minutes.
This moment, intended by Jack to be humorous, came across as a grotesque display of insensitivity toward a comment that endorsed violence against an entire population.
Other
- Jack states he stopped looking at YouTube comments as of 2015 due to hate.
- Jack's ex-wife Karen was (allegedly) physically abusive to him, including throwing plates and ashtrays at him, and shoving him through the shower door.
- Jack claims he got fat because he stopped smoking.
- Jack was already bald when he first met Tammy. He hid his baldness by wearing a baseball cap when around her. This greatly disappointed Tammy once she finally found him cap-less.
- Jack says Garrett prevented Junior from beginning to smoke weed, and that Garrett supposedly wished he had just listened to his dad and never started smoking himself (Garrett's current state does not support this claim).
- The Scalfanis describe Californian weed shops and the Lawings are in awe.
- Tammy claims they have Garrett set up to talk to pastors about "his worshiping of God" (Garrett is a Buddhist nowadays).
- Krystal gets really upset over Doritos releasing a limited "pride" flavor. "I can't think about it right now."
- Jack calls California "Sodom and Gomorrah" and describes praying to God that they would be able to move out before Junior began high school, being afraid of evil gangs and homosexuals corrupting him.
- Upon leaving California, the Scalfanis first stayed at a timeshare with one bedroom for 45 days. Tammy says this costed $20,000, which was covered by the people in Russellville, Kentucky where Tammy had her job set up.
- The Scalfanis lament over how much of their furniture was destroyed upon finally moving in.
- Jack demonstrates gay marriage as a litmus test of whether a church is worth going to. He bugs pastors whether they would conduct a gay wedding, and anything other than an immediate "No" is a no-go.
- The Scalfanis describe hosting 20 people, plus Tammy's parents, for the 2014 Christmas dinner.
- Tammy states she cannot cook and leaves it to Jack (Explaining why they eat out so often).
- Tammy's parents came back to Tennessee for 2015 Fourth of July celebrations and stayed over for 27 days. Jack gets mad over this.
- As the cherry on top, the episode ends with a lame "That's what she said" joke.
Aftermath
Shortly upon the episode's release, anons of the 4chan /ck/ board took notice of Jack's confessions and began spreading clips of them around YouTube.[3][4][5] The Sunday Evening Coffee Twitter account bragged about the episode gaining a thousand views,[6] before quickly realizing why, taking the episode down shortly therafter "because we wanted to!"[7] Both Brian and Jack spent months scrubbing the episode and clips of it off the internet.[8][9] Besides the Garrett-choking and Palestine clips, the full episode was seemingly successfully scrubbed for some time, before it finally resurfaced on 25 August 2020.[10]
The Sunday Evening Coffee podcast continued releasing episodes after the fiasco, ultimately stopping at the 41st episode on 26 February 2017.[11] Sometime later, the podcast's website, iTunes page and Stitcher page were all taken down, however the non-Jack episodes have remained up on YouTube (They are also completely unremarkable).[12]
August the Duck, a Jack critic, shone a new light on the podcast in a February 2024 video. August had originally quit ribbing on Jack over certain health events,[13] however upon watching the podcast, he felt a need to discuss it, realizing Jack was rotten as a person rather than just a silly fat guy on the internet.[14] He would later receive a doxing threat from a troll over the video, something that August originally pinned on Jack.[15] After Jack denied being behind the threat, August apologized.[16]
Gallery
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The podcast's logo.
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Picture of Jack and Tammy used as the episode cover.
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Brian and Krystal Lawing.
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Jason and Jennifer Zack, the two jesters hiding off-camera during the Jack episode.
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Copyright strikes filed by Jack against edits of the episode (Note that Jack did not even own the footage).
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A thousand views!
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Brian got real pissy over the reuploads.
References
- ↑ https://x.com/suneveningcof/status/654772149819826178
- ↑ https://web.archive.org/web/20161029224245/http://sundayeveningcoffee.com/podcasts.html
- ↑ https://warosu.org/ck/thread/6982054#p6983074
- ↑ https://archived.moe/ck/thread/7052190/#q7060753
- ↑ https://x.com/exposejscalfani/status/672239328559411200
- ↑ https://x.com/suneveningcof/status/666587606138773504
- ↑ https://x.com/suneveningcof/status/672221850169155584
- ↑ https://x.com/suneveningcof/status/672224781702463488
- ↑ https://x.com/exposejscalfani/status/672239721410527233
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyJPxp2KI_8
- ↑ https://web.archive.org/web/20170612041633/http://www.sundayeveningcoffee.com/podcasts.html
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/@marriageminute4/videos
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXTRQCXTa4A
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8mmVRmZDRA
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27U4ADMwzU
- ↑ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoAwOJDgaw